Your responses were excellent last week. You are all asking the questions you SHOULD be asking. Those of you who helped out other readers: nice job on that.
Choose to comment on ONE of the two following questions. Also, include a comment, frustration, or interesting note from today's reading:
1. Why does Beloved appear NOW? Why not years before?
2. Why is Paul D so disturbed by Mister?
Don't forget to put your name on the comment.
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First of all, I'd just like to say that the name "Yale Cho the Hoe" made me laugh!
ReplyDeleteO.K. Chapters 5-7. I liked them. Plenty of confusing things! Morrison is such a tease, though. I keep thinking she's gonna tell us something, but she always leaves us wanting more. i like that. I thought it was very interesting how, now that she's facing a painful memory (her dead daughter, Beloved), Sethe is becoming more comfortable acknowledging and revealing her past. I was very surprised when she asked Paul D. to vent to her in chapter 7. I'm also interested in the strange reaction everyone has to Beloved.
1) I want to know why Beloved shows up as a person NOW and not before. Why is even there? Is she on some type of mission? Does she just want her family?
2) I don't believe Denver knows who Beloved really is, so why, when she was so unwelcoming to Paul D., is she SO protective of Beloved?
3) What's Paul D.'s beef with Beloved?
4)What's with Denver's anxiety about stories that don't include her?
5) Is there something important we should know about the mark on Sethe's mom?
6) What's the significance of the shadows and their interactions?
Molly
hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
ReplyDeleteso i feel like a nerd right now, typing away on this blog when there's no question to answer, but i needed to write confusing stuff from the book somewhere! ( I left my journal at school T.T )
and i'm typing as i read so my questions might be answered later on in the stoorryyy
1. Is Denver a lesbian? or just really really really really REALLY lonely?
2. This Beloved character is fishy...
pg. 68 "Sethe was licked, tasted, eaten by Beloved's eyes." ------Morrison's diction is interesting...
3. wow, i am very confused at what happend in pages 72-74...
i really liked these chapters though!
Morrison's writing style is like poetry....
grace
MOLLY!
ReplyDeleteI really don't know why Beloved shows up now. I doubt it, but maybe it has something to do with Paul D. "scaring away" her ghost? Or maybe she has come because it's time for Sethe to face her past and start to heal. I also wonder if this could be foreshadowing of a situation where she may need to protect Sethe or Denver.
Maybe it's not supposed to be literal. Maybe Beloved's presence is just a symbol of the Sethe's repressed memories. This would go along with Paul D.'s role as the guy all the girls vent to. Now that he's here, Sethe is more willing to face her painful memories (Beloved).
- Molly
I believe that the whole concept of Paul D and Mister, the deformed rooster, is about freedom. Paul D states, “Mister, he looked so…free. Better than me. Stronger, tougher. Son a bitch couldn’t even get out the shell by hisself but he was still king and I was…” I think it frustrates Paul D to know that this rooster is allowed to be whatever he wants to be and stay on the tub where he wants to, but Paul D cannot have this freedom. I think that anyone would be pissed off that a little animal has more freedom then he/she does.
ReplyDeleteAs for Molly and Grace’s questions about pg. 72-74 and the mark on Sethe’s mother’s back….I believe that the mark was branded on all the slaves back then so that their owners could easily recognize/claim them in case they were ever lost or tried to run away and somebody turned them in. Sethe clearly doesn’t understand this because she says, “Mark the mark on me too.” I find it very sad that the only vivid memory Sethe had about her mother was the mark on her chest—she never really got to know her on a personal level because they were always separated and Nan ended up raising Sethe.
Some questions I had….
--Why does Sethe’s bladder suddenly fill up when she first witnesses Beloved on the doorstep? ( I know the same thing happened when she saw her mother for the 1st time…so I’m thinkin this must be significant)
--Is there a significance of Beloved choking on a raisin?
--What’s with Halle smearing butter all over his face? Has he gone insane?
**Christine Raley**
Chris Klimek
ReplyDeleteI believe that Beloved shows up now because Sethe is starting to become happy. When Sethe was lonely and depressed with only Denver for company, Beloved was fine just scarying the family from time to time. I AGREE with Molly that something with Paul D scaring away the ghost had something to do with the occurance, but mainly the fact that Sethe is probably close to the happiest she's ever been, and Beloved can not take it.
Some questions I have from the reading are:
Is there a significance of Beloved needing to drink a lot of water?
What is the importance of the two orange squares in the otherwise blue room?
In the end of chapter seven, Paul D and Sethe talked about the shame of wearing the bit. To be wearing the bit, which prevented his jaw to move, while watching a rooster walk freely was a dehumanizing experience for Paul D. This is symbolic of the lack of freedom a slave had in comparison to even farm animals, that were allowed to move freely.
ReplyDeleteA question I had was why didn't Halle meet with Sethe during her escape. Even if he saw everything that happened to Sethe in the barn it wasn't her fault that they took advantage of her. Also why was he smearing butter all over his face after seeing what happened?
Anna Z
Beloved comes now because Paul D came. Sethe tried for years to cover up her past. She was successful until Paul D came. He got rid of her ghost. Once the ghost was gone, the baby needed to be spoken for in some way. I think by the end of the book, more of Sethe's past is going to be revealed to us and to everyone in the book. That will finally break her down.
ReplyDeleteI have a question about something on page 105. At the end of the first paragraph it says that Baby Suggs "began to collapse twenty-eight days after her daughter-in-law arrived." Why 28 days? Did something happen that made her collapse?
Christine, I think that Sethe's bladder fills up because it's recreating her water breaking. It's like Beloved is being born all over again.
Chris, I think that the orange squares show that no matter how hard she tries, Sethe can't get rid of all color, just like she can't get rid of all of her memories.
~Melissa Scholl
I think Paul D is disturbed by Mister for a few reasons. Hopefully I am reading this right, but Paul D broke Mister out of his shell as a chick because he was too weak to break out. When Mister grew up, other people thought of Mister as being superior to slaves possibly? Just one thought but also Paul D says that Mister has a name and Paul D is not really a name because if he went somewhere else he would very likely have a new name. Anyone get anything more from this section? (pages 85-86)
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think is the reason to include the turtle scene on page 124? Is this just random, or foreshadowing something, or is this relating back to something I may have missed in my reading? Any ideas?
.:Jeff Bono:.
I think Beloved shows up now in person because her spirit wasn't strong enough anymore to haunt the house with Paul D there. She's been able to stay in Sethe's life, watch over her, and follow her every move as a spirit, but now Paul D has ruined that for her. On page 89 Beloved says, " She is the one. She is the one I need. You can go but she is the one I have to have." Now that Paul D is at the house he's a threat to Beloved because he keeps Sethe away from her. Beloved's now trying to win Sethe back, but I'm wondering how far Beloved will go in order to do that.
ReplyDelete~Allie Drost~
The phrase "haunted by your past" popped into my head as I thought about the first question. In this book, the phrase could be taken more literally, as the ghost of Sethe's baby girl haunts the house in which she lives in. Once Paul D comes and kicks the ghost out of the house, Beloved had to find a new way to come back. In the form of a human girl, she would be at a better vantage point to continue her "haunting." Watching how she's managed to work her way into the hearts of the residents at 124, I wonder if she's going to turn on them and deal her ultimate revenge on Sethe for her murder.
ReplyDeletePaul D is disturbed by Mister, because he can see that the white people give a mere rooster more respect than they give fellow humans with darker skin. Paul D might see an analogy between the relationship the rooster and he have and the relationship the whites and blacks have. Paul D had helped the rooster hatch - without Paul D, Mister would be nothing. Slaves have helped - willing or not - their white masters with whatever the masters needed. Without the slaves, the slaveowners would not have the status they enjoyed. In both situations, there is an imbalance between the amount of work one group does for another and the amount of gratitude and compensation that is shown in return (granted a rooster can't really compensate anyone).
What I found interesting was the last few sentences of chapter 9: "Beloved dropped the folds of her skirt. It spread around her. The hem darkened in the water" (p. 124). The passage sounded sort of ominous, especially with the use of "darkened." Maybe I'm reading too much into these sentences, but I wonder if they are foreshadowing something to come.
1) I think that Beloved appears now for a couple reasons. First off because Paul D scared the baby ghost (Beloved) out of the house and it seems Beloved still wants to haunt Sethe in some way because there still seems to be unfinished business. Also, I think that the baby ghost (Beloved) doesn't want Sethe to forget or be happy, because Beloved happens to arrive right after Paul D, Sethe,and Denver actually feel happy. It's again evident that Beloved doesn't want Sethe to forget or be happy because she too is angered by Paul D's presence. I think Beloved came now because it seems like she came at the exact time Sethe was about to forget or move on, and Beloved doesn't want her to move on.
ReplyDeleteAs for Melissa's question, i think that the reason Baby Sugs collapsed 28 days after her daughter arrived is because Sethe killed the baby 28 days after she arrived and then the family was avoided by the community after that.
Like Jeff, I'm also puzzled by the significance of the whole turtle thing.
On page 109 why did Baby Sugs tell her not to clean the eyes till she got the mother's urine?? Am i really naiive or does that just seem weird?
and why does the woman in her bonnet cry into her cooking? is she just always sad?
Amber
I didn't read all the comments, but I read a handful of them, and I disagree about the seemingly common idea the beloved is still trying to cause sethe pain by haunting her. Whenever she interacts with sethe, she gives is portrayed as being intensely curious and innocent, possibly even attached, depending on how you regard Paul D's comment about her "shining." No, I think the reason that Beloved shows up now, as opposed to earlier, is because now is the times when wounds are being reopened and the past is being brought back to light.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a ghost expert, but from what I understand of ghost lore, they typically are believed to haunt on account of a misdeed that needs to be redressed. For example, the often satired lore of indian burial grounds. The ghosts haunt because they believe they've been robbed of their rightful resting place. So I think beloved was, as a ghost, haunting for the life that was taken away from her. Now that Paul D came into the picture, Beloved must have another plan, which seems to be discovering what she can about the life of her mother and sister.
I think that the reason Beloved shows up now is because Paul D comes and drives the ghost away. By driving the ghost out of the house I think that the ghost came back as the girl Beloved. Also I think that by Paul D coming he also brings up a lot of memories of Sethe's past and part of her past is her baby.
ReplyDeleteA part that I found confusing was when Beloved was choking. Is there more to that part then her just choking?
Also why is Halle smearing butter all over his face? Has he just gone insane or is their more to this?
Jenny Cozza
I think that Beloved showed up now because Paul D chased the ghost out of the house, and Beloved is representing the past the Sethe. I see it as too much of a coincidence that she came as soon as Paul D chased the ghost, so I am guessing that these two events are related. I see the importance of Beloved as representing her past, as she tries continually to keep the memories shut out of her life, I think Morrison uses Beloved to bring back these memories, as she uses Paul D to also bring back the memories of Sethe's husband, Halle.
ReplyDeleteOne question I have is what is the importance of the turtle scene in the end of chapter 9?
Another question I have is if Beloved was choking Sethe, why would Beloved want to hurt Sethe?
Also what is the significance of the word 'darkened' that is used very much in these chapters?
~Aylla Lashaway
I agree with what Melissa said about why Beloved appears now in the book as opposed to sooner or later. Because Paul D got rid of the "ghost", the spirt of Sethe's baby has to be represented somehow, and this is through Beloved.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think Beloved represents Sethe's repressed memories about Sweet Home. Now that Paul D reappears in her life and Beloved repeatedly asks about Sethe's past, Sethe is forced to bring back all the old memories of slavery, or the rememories. I think it is interesting that Morrison uses a character to bring back these memories and not just use the character's (Sethe's) internal conflict to do so.
I'm confused about Amy. On page 92, it says, "...Amy's fugitive eyes..." and on 93, "I had me some whippings, but I don't remember nothing like this..." when Amy is evaluating Sethe's scar on her back. If Amy is a "whitegirl" then why is she being whipped and called a fugitive? Is Amy a figurative fugitive rather than a real ex-slave like Sethe?
Christine Spasoff
I agree with what everyone above me has said about the fact that Beloved is here now because Paul D is here. I kind of think Brian has a good idea when he suggests that maybe Beloved isn't here just to cause Sethe torment. So far she's been really innocent and questioning. Maybe this form of the ghost (because I think that Morrison has given us tons of clues that Beloved and the baby ghost are one and the same) just wants to know why she was killed instead of being angry about it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I can't help but think that Beloved is present in the form of a person for a reason other than to simply ask questions. I'm pretty sure there's going to be something big involving Beloved and the other inhabitants of 124.
One thing that's really frustrating me at this point in the novel is that I really want to know where Halle is and what's happened to him. The suspense is really annoying. I also wonder whether there was more to the butter churn references than just Paul D finding Halle with butter smeared all over his face after seeing what Schoolteacher's nephews did to Sethe. I want to know!!!
-Kelsey Loden
I believe that Beloved showed up at this point in the book because she felt that there was finally a sense of happyness in the house. Like Paul D said, this was one of the reasons why he was frustrated, because they had a big fight and and they worked things out, and for once felt like a family. I believe that this is something that beloved longed for and needed, that is why at this point in the novel she was brought in. I also believe there is a sense of jealousy as well as need for compassion, and comfort that Beloved never received. At this point when the "family" somewhat began to emerge. With Denver being lonely, this could have also been Beloved trying to fill a void in this family setting. This fills the empty feeling of Beloved as well as the Family struggles, for the girls at least.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that i was wondering is where Amy came from, and why she was brought up again in the novel?
Chris Ramirez
Like what others have said, I think that beloved appears at this moment in the book because Paul D have moved into the house. Since Paul D is bringing back all of the old memories back to Sethe . When he appears, the ghost of beloved disappears so beloved must have some way of reminding Sethe of what happened.
ReplyDeleteI think its interesting and disturbing and weird how beloved "wants" Sethe. Is it supposed to be sexual? It seems like it is but I dont know. And is the mark on Sethe's mom like a slave mark? and that's why she got so mad when Sethe wanted one too? And whats up with Sethe not knowing which one of the ladies is her mom and having someone else point out who her mom is?
- Carlita Shen
I think that Beloved shows up when she does because at this point in the book, Sethe is starting to unlock her hidden away memories, partly due to the presence of Paul D. I think that in this sense, the ghost represents Sethe's past and her memories of it, since the killing of her baby is central to this past. Before, when Sethe kept her past repressed, the ghost was invisible and could only be seen through the effects it had on the house, just like Sethe's past was unknown to her and present only through it's effects on her. However, now Sethe is becoming fully aware of what happened, so now the ghost is embodied as an impossible to ignore physical person.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that confused me is how Beloved is described by Paul D as looking sexually aroused. I think this could also tie in to her interest in the turtles, but I still don't understand how her sexuality relates to what Sethe did to her baby or any other part of the book.
-Donald Magnani
I am honestly not really sure why Beloved appears suddenly at this point in the book, so, I am going to make an educated guess. I am just going to put down a bunch of my observations that might seem random, but then I am going draw a conclusion from all of these observations.
ReplyDeleteRight before Beloved shows up Paul D, Sethe, and Denver go to the carnival together. While they are walking together, it is mentioned numerous times how their shadows are holding hands. It looks like they are all connected and have become one. Even Denver seemed to be enjoying herself.
Ever since Paul D came, Denver notices that Sethe is a different person; she seems more girlish.
Beloved mentions later how she needs Sethe. Denver can leave, but Beloved cannot go without Seth. This is shown in the that Beloved seems almost obsessed with Sethe.
The book mentions how Paul D messes up the baby's plans.
here is my conlusion:
Paul D's arrival began to make Sethe into a different person. Sethe, Paul D, and Denver were becoming one (the shadows). Because they are becoming one, Beloved is an outsider and gets thrown out by Paul D. The problem is that Beloved needs Sethe, which explains why Paul D is interupting her plan. In order to have Sethe, then, Beloved must come in the way she did at the time she did, before the three of them became one. By coming, Beloved can now have Sethe.
My question is, why does beloved have such a deep need for Sethe?
Now for what is frustratin/confusing:
What happened to Halle? Why couldn't/didn't he help Sethe when the boys were taking her milk? Why was he hiding?
I just feel as though I am not getting something of significance when it comes to Halle.
Thanks Melissa for your short explanation about the orange squares and Sethe's bladder filling up; I definately did not get that before!
Teresa Finegan
I agree with the people who say that Beloved shows up now because of Paul D. Paul D brought some of Sethe's repressed memories to the surface, but Beloved straight out asks Sethe to relive those memories. When Paul D scared the ghost out of the house, Morrison had already put so much emphasis on the ghost that you know it had to show up again somehow. I kind of like how the ghost has been reincarnated as a person. I think it keeps the book from being a ghost story with a haunted house, but instead shows how repressed memories are like ghosts, that even though you can't see them, they are always there, mainly because you don't want to deal with them.
ReplyDeleteA few people mentioned the part about Sethe being choked in chapter 9. I think she is choked because at the beginning of the book, page 6, it talks about the baby's fury at having its throat cut. My guess is that both of these things are sort of representative of not being able to talk and having no control over your life because you can't form the words for it, so sort of like slaves having no control over their lives and having their desires smothered.
Blaire Lurie
I think that Paul D is one of the reasons Beloved decides to show up in physical form now. I see it as a power struggle. Before, Beloved was able to maintain power over Denver and Sethe just by being a spirit. Yea, Sethe wasn't afraid, but she wasn't willing to fight back either. Now that Paul D is living in the house, and has shown that he's willing to stand up to the spirit, Beloved has to resort to more drastic measures, such as appearing in physical form, to maintain power.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I found interesting was how the Morrison mentioned that the legs of the table Paul D has bashed earlier were mended stronger than before. It kind of made me stop and for a second while reading, and I think it has more to do with the novel than just being a detail.
I'm not a big fan of Morrison's excessive use of symbolism. I like symbolism, but I wish she would be a little more forthright in her writing. The book has so much symbolism that it seems allegorical to me.
-Eric Freeburg
Paul D is extremely disturbed and fixated by Mister, the rooster. I think that he is amazed that a bird that wasn’t strong enough to break out of its own shell leads a life of freedom, while Paul D suffers. Paul D has been abused and dehumanized and I think that how he feels about his situation is best described in the following quote, "I'd never be Paul D again, living or dead. Schoolteacher changed me. I was something else and that something was less than a chicken sitting in the sun on a tub" (86). Mister was allowed to roam around the farm, he had sufficient amounts of food, was left alone for the most part. On the other hand, Paul D was a prisoner to the fields and a victim of the schoolteacher. Paul D is so troubled about the rooster because he knows that Mister, an animal, was treated better than him, a human being.
ReplyDelete-Brittany Gorecki
oh and something that confuses me...
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Beloved tell them where she is from and why she came there? I understand that they don't want to force an answer out of her, because it might bring up bad memories. But, at the same time I don't get why they aren't trying to find out more about the stranger living in their house.
-Brittany Gorecki
I agree with everyone that it seems beloved shows up right after Paul D scared the ghost away. I also think that it coincides with Sethe's opening up because until this point the ghost was really the only reminder of her past. Now that Paul D is her she is opening up and starting to revisit her past. As her past becomes clearer so does the image of her baby's death so the memories along with the ghost are coming to life.
ReplyDeleteGeoff
In chapters 5-7, I thought Paul D comparing himself to the rooster was interesting, so that's the question I'm going to answer. I guess Paul D is frustrated by the fact that even the rooster he cared for had more freedom than he did. Mister could eat whatever he wanted to and go wherever he wanted within limits. But I think the thing that most angers Paul D is the fact that Mister never has to defy his true nature. Paul D noted that even if they killed Mister, he would never be forced to be anything other than a rooster. Paul D knows that he is a man. He has all the emotions that accompany humanity, and he wants to live his live according to the natural tendencies of a human. But by being enslaved, he is treated more as an animal. The fact that the rooster gets better treatment bothers him, but he is more upset by the fact that the rooster gets to be a rooster while he, a human, has to work and obey like an animal.
ReplyDeleteJennifer Bora
Wow. I hate facebook, it popped then my whole long paragraph got deleted cause it back-paged.
ReplyDeleteSo, summarizing my last post, I had no idea that Beloved was actually the slit-throat/crawling? baby. That totally makes sense with the choking. However, does Denver make the connection that she is her sister? If not, that's pretty frickin' interesting. I'm just a bit lost, but I'm sure we can discuss things in class. But I think Beloved appears now more because the story needs somewhere to start. Obviously Denver and Sethe have been living alone for a while, so it would only be fitting to start the book around when the chain of events start to get interesting, around when Paul D and Beloved appear. If the book started 3 years before these characters appeared, it wouldn't have made much literary sense... unless you try to fill up a boring book with a totally yawner plot like Tom Sawyer. I still dislike that book a lot.
Anyways, the whole Beloved character really confused me, but now I get it. Awesome. See you guyses tomorrowz.
-YALE CHO THE HO
It seems pretty obvious that Beloved came to the house because Paul D was there now. Beloved knew that Paul D would stand up to the ghost so she had to come to the house in human form. I beleive that Sethe is telling Beloved all her past memories because she feels comfortable with her and feels like somehow this is helping Sethe get rid of some of the stress she feels. What I am confused about is why no one asks any questions about Beloved's past. It is a little weird how well they treat her without knowing anything about the girl.
ReplyDeleteI think the other question is interesting too because I can see why Paul D is so disturbed by Mister. He is disturbed because of when he wears the bit, he feels like the rooster is more respected than him. He feels that he is lower on the social class than an animal.
Tom Pasisis
I think that Beloved shows up now because everything is begining to come together for Sethe. Her life seems to be getting better and Paul D scared away the baby ghost haunting 124. I also feel like the ghost has a larger methaphorical meaning. The author has deliberatly emphasised too many "ghostly happenings" if you will for this ghost to be nothing more than a character in this novel. I definately think that Toni Morrison is trying to say something more by including the ghost and perhaps we will understand more with the introduction of Beloved into the story.
ReplyDelete~ Jonathan Thorsell
In my opinion, i feel like Beloved's character shows up now because Paul D got rid of the ghost in the house. I feel as though the baby ghost became Beloved, which makes me suspicious and unsure of Beloved and her actions/words. I noticed that a lot of people thought that too, but I think that the ghost actually BECAME or POSSESSED this girl. I also think that Paul D has a lot of questions and is antsy around Beloved because when he first came to 124, he was uncomfortable with the spirit that was dwelling in the home. He is the one who threw it out of the house, and since I believe that the baby ghost is Beloved, he feels suspicion towards Beloved.
ReplyDeleteThe part of the book where Morrison described the legs of the table being stronger than before made me read it over twice too. I was just wondering what it could signify because inanimate objects do not mend itself, or gain strength on its own.
I was also curious at Beloved's obsession with eating sugar. I know that the "family's" theory on it was that because her body was recovering and sugar was the fastest way to get energy, but she consumes way too much. I don't think that it is a big deal, or some huge symbolic message, but I was just curious. (:
gracegracegracegracegracegracegracegracegracegrace
oh yeaaaaaaaaa and I didn't read the assignment for tonight yet. I'm actually going to do that right now, so i feel like my post is very not in tune with the rest of the classes...
ReplyDeletegracegracegracegracegracegracegracegracegracegrace
I just typed something and I don't know if it was posted...so i'll write it up again...
ReplyDeleteI didn't read chapters eight and nine yet so my answer/question/interesting thing is not "in tune" with everyone elses...
I'm going to read them right now though!
gracegracegracegracegracegracegracegracegrace
Albeit corny, I think the reason that Beloved shows up in a physical form is to keep Denver company and someone to love as Sethe now has Paul D in her life. Before when it was only Sethe and Denver they kept each other company and had each other. Now Paul D comes into the picture and slowly starts tearing Sethe from Denver and Denver has nothing left really. She has no friends, because of other families being creeped out by her mother's actions and her house that is haunted. Now that Denver is truly alone, Beloved comes to be, just as her name suggests, beloved by Denver. Again, might be a little corny, like all works out for the best, but I'm not gonna come on here and be like: "I think Beloved comes back and silently plots their death." I mean, come on.
ReplyDeleteOh god. I really should just wait til I finish reading, because I get contradicted like just a few pages down. Apparently Beloved don't need no Denver in her life at all. It's all about the Sethinator.
Alright, let's try this again. I believe Beloved comes back to clear up unknown information to the characters. Through her probing, Sethe finds out what happened to Halle and talking about their stories bring back more memories. I guess she's an informational probe?
I'll go with that.
Anywho, how's everyone?
That's good.
Bye.
John McCarthy
I think Beloved showed up now because Paul D is bringing joy into Sethe's life and Beloved is becoming a little angry that her mother is actually happy now with the presence of Paul D. I feel that Beloved wanted Sethe to be disturbed for the rest of her life as a pay back to what she did to Beloved in the past. And now since Paul D is in the picture and he is ruining Beloved's plans, she is getting angry so she came back to somewhat get revenge on them.
ReplyDelete-Stacey Kim
Thanks John, I'm doing mighty fine.
ReplyDeleteNow that there’s a big strong manly man to “protect” Sethe and Denver, I think that Beloved the ghost takes a human form to put a stop to her emerging happiness. I feel that if I was a ghost (which I am not) I would want to stir up trouble for the person that slit my throat. Basic human reaction. So, now that she sees that Sethe is becoming semi happier because of Paul D’s appearance, she feels that she must intervene in a humanly, more comfortable form. That way, Sethe can trust Beloved and allow her to come inside the bubble. I think Beloved shows up at this point because she wants to pop it and make her even more miserable. This seems like a very common response, but I thought a tad differently in that a betrayal will take place because Beloved comes at a time when Sethe is so accepting towards everything. She knows this, and Beloved seems cunning and capable of backstabbing Sethe as Sethe did to her (except in the neck).
One thing I found interesting was how Sethe took kindly to Beloved more so than with Denver as seen in the beginning of chapter 6. I would think that Sethe would feel more comfy around Denver being that Denver is not the baby that she killed so long ago. Beloved is…and that makes it odd to me that Sethe finds so much comfort with Beloved, a complete stranger, rather than her own daughter of 18 years. As for my questions, why was Beloved so thirsty when she came out of the water? She was just in water…yet she still wants water…significance? And also, I was wondering how Beloved knew of the earrings of Sethe’s. Did I miss a part when they discussed it or something??
-Kevin
I think Beloved appears now because everything was going swell, like Paul D scared off the ghost and everything, but now its all pissed off. So Beloved is actually the ghost (maybe?) and is going to get back at Paul D. I don't understand the strange relationship between the ghost and Denver though, maybe its just cuz she's lonely all the time. Sethe should prolly get Beloved to leave ASAP, but I predict that she won't, and something bad is gonna happen. I still don't understand why the school teacher wrote down notes in the scene from earlier where Sethe was raped by the 2 guys in the barn. Oh and I wonder if Halle is gonna reappear cuz that could make things interesting.
ReplyDeleteDOUG sub-5-minute-mile MAYER
Kevin thanks for clearing up that you're not a ghost.
ReplyDeleteoooops....ok ms. weidig...i kind of accidentally posted my blog paragraph on last weeks blog post thing (i hit the link on the word welcome instead of week 2...) but its all there and its the last comment so you can read it there....sorry again ive never used a blog b4 and im still figuring it out....
ReplyDelete~Nicole Cholewa~
Good writers always have a reason for the details they include in their books. For this reason, the fact that this book begins when Denver is 18 years old must be significant. Take a look at the last paragraph on page 51: "As for Denver, the job Sethe had of keeping her from the past that was still waiting for her was all that mattered." And again, on page 86, "Nothing better than that to start the day's serious work of beating back the past." There is also a distinct underlying idea of events and people that transcend time in this plot - that "never die." From what we have read so far, more of the plot seems to be about the family's past than actual current events, and in this way, Beloved is simply a returning face from the past. One thing that also tips the reader off towards this idea is the way in which Denver reacts to Beloved's questions. Beloved seems to know things about Sethe since before she was even born, such as the earrings Mrs. Gardner gave Sethe, so she is not simply the baby's ghost looking different than usual: she has come to 124 for a reason, to convey some sort of message. My best guess is that she is there for Denver's sake, because Denver seems to be the character most in need of attention and is now becoming an adult, which must have some significance, as the rest of the story seems to revolve so much about sexuality and, uh, babies.
ReplyDeleteQuestion. How or why did Denver figure out so quickly who Beloved was? She has to beg Beloved not to tell Sethe who she is, so there must have been something that clued Denver in to her identity that Sethe wouldn't understand on her own.
◘ Jeffrey Hoerman ◘
"I was something else and that something else was less than a chicken sitting in the sun on a tub". This quote is from page 86. I think it was one of the most powerful sentetnces in our reading so far. It captures readers because its not an everyday comparison (much like the "milking" gets our attention better than "rape"). And then, captured as we are, we have to imagine just what that would feel like. Morrison doesn't just say Paul D felt lousy or ashamed or deflated- she said he felt like less of a man than a chicken. That he was less free, less proud, and LESS THAN A CHICKEN. There's a whole new way of seeing the sentiments of the slaves after this vivid scene. Knowing what we do about slavery, it would be hard to claim that Paul D exaggerated his feeling of inferiority when he looked at Mister- and yet it's such a surprising and gut-wrenching realization because we, as readers, are forced to admit that indeed- Paul D was less than a chicken.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I'd like a little clarification on-
I have trouble picturing the surroundings of 124. How close are "neighbors", who are these neighbors, and who built 124, for what purpose, and when?
Lisa
Paul D is disturbed by Mister because of what Mister represented to him... freedom. As Paul put it, Mister had the freedom to move around, had the freedom to choose what to do, had the freedom to be called something while Paul was stuck in an iron mask that took away his humanity from its pain and from its shame. Paul described the birth of the rooster and how he discovered the lone egg, only years later to be outshone by the bird that walks almost triumphantly around his yard while Paul is confined to the piece of metal lodged to his head. Paul sees this and despairs from it. He states that he wanted to keep such thoughts “locked up in his rusty Tin heart” for none others to see. This event as a whole shows a new side of Paul that the reader has never seen before. It seems like the author is attempting to slowly piece together Sethe’s past by using the memories and actions of others to describe and depict the events surrounding the main characters… but what do I know… I guess we’ll have to figure it out!
ReplyDeleteAs i stated earlier in class today... i pretty sure this book is moving into the catagory of "tragic Horror film"... but as stated before, i guess i'll have to wait to find out.. *gulp*
.: Mike Metzen :.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete1. It said that beloved was almost at ease before Paul D arrived. The only thing i can think of that answers this question is that once the baby is disturbed, she comes back at this time to try and set things straight. The water obviously signified the birth of Beloved, so we can be sure that it is actually her and not something else. It seems as though beloved comes back now because she is disturbed with Paul D.
Alex Hattenhauer
This book is absolutely insane. Like whoa. Quick thought just ran through my mind, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't fit. What if Sethe killed the wrong baby, and this is the real Beloved? Like there was somehow a mix up? Or maybe Sethe just thought it was Beloved but it wasn't? Maybe that could contribute to why the neighbors are afraid of her? I dunno, that was just kinda my stream of thought. I'm too tired. But yea. About that Beloved. Hows that for creepy? Alright so if we go with the whole, the ghost baby is the real Beloved idea, not my insanity, then I'm thinkin Paul D scared the spirit out of the house and now she possessed someone? Maybe? So now, having the capabilities to move about and talk, Beloved can probe about Denver and Sethe, and even Paul D, and she can learn about her family. She can find any answers that are keeping her on earth. Maybe she wants to find out why she was killed. Was there more to that murder? Yanno what? This book brings up more questions than answers. Its annoying me.
ReplyDeleteBut there it is. Gnight team.
Max "HeartGold" Moss
Question 1:
ReplyDeleteBeloved decides to show up in this point in the book because it is when nearly all of the characters have forgotten her. The family makes a trip to the carnival and has a great time; however, waiting for them at home, like she always have been,is Beloved in the flesh and blood. I loved the whole description of her especially the lines about how her neck seemed too thin to hold up her head. Just like a newborn's. After scaring her out of the house Beloved needs to find a new way to manifest herself in the family's life. You know this is true because when Sethe questions about Here Boy Denver replies that he is not going to come back. I think is seals the deal on the woman being Beloved and who better to relate to the ghost than the one who needed and loved her company the most; Denver. I also appreciate the way that Beloved come to Sethe because she has to urinate in a way that can't help but remind her of her water breaking when she was birthing Denver.
I am wondering about Beloved's "shining look" is sounds almost vaguely sexual? Or is this supposed to depict her apparition-like qualities?
-Sarah Nelson
2. Paul D is so disturbed by Mister, the rooster because the rooster has more freedom than Paul D has. Mister was allowed to be who he was while Paul D couldn't be himself because he was a slave.I think that this quote embodies the frustration of Paul D. "Even if you cooked him you'd be cooking a rooster named Mister. But wasn't no way I'd ever be Paul D again, living or dead"(Morrison 86). Essentially, the rooster had more of an identity than the human being which drove Paul D mad. Morrison is once again commenting on the blantant mistreatment of slaves during this time period and is very effective at it by using Paul D's raw emotion and by comparing humans to roosters, where roosters are superior in this case. This throws us off as readers and really makes us question the morality of what is going on.
ReplyDelete-James Per 6
I feel like the reason Beloved appeared now is because of Paul D. Paul D is reawakening Sethe's past and now that he got her painful memories flowing, everything else is coming back too. Sethe's mind is "loaded with the past and hungry for more." (83)
ReplyDeleteI found the last sentence of chapter 5 to be interesting and a bit confusing. Paul D seems disappointed that Denver does not support him, but i was under the impression that there had been a wedge between them from the start since Paul D came between Denver and Sethe. Has Denver forgiven him since Beloved arrived and provided her with a companion, or is Paul D just oblivious to Denver's true feelings?
Andrew Freeman
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